New Hampshire debate open thread

 I'm taping the debate and will watch it later, after kids are in bed.

Meanwhile, tell us what you think–who won?

Who surprised you?

Whose supporters will be cringing?

UPDATE: Deeth's liveblog is here: http://jdeeth.blogsp…

SECOND UPDATE: I watched the rerun on CNN. By the way, in case you missed it,  you can find the transcript on the CNN site here:

http://transcripts.c…

Several candidates did well, and I don't think anyone made any big mistakes.

The format was much better than the first debate on MSNBC, and most of the questions were not bad, although Wolf did toss out some really stupid ones, like the hypothetical trying to trick them into saying they would or wouldn't bomb Osama bin Laden if innocent people would die in the attack.

Quick reaction, taking the candidates in alphabetical order:

Joe Biden helped himself. He's got a lot of experience on the Sunday talk shows, and he knows how to answer a question in 60 seconds. Also, on a superficial level, if you are not listening closely to the content of his answers, he sounds confident and forceful. He comes across as a strong candidate, not a guy hovering between the second and third tiers. The substance of his answers was pretty good too. My favorite moment was when he took the question about earmarks and tied it to public financing of elections–big money in politics is obviously behind most of those middle-of-the-night earmarks that could not withstand scrutiny.

Hillary Clinton did ok, but to me she sounded more defensive than she did during the first debate. I thought she handled the trick question about don't ask, don't tell well. I sense that she is playing these debates not to lose, and is mainly focused on avoiding big mistakes. She looked mad when Edwards emphasized that he was wrong to vote for the war, and that Obama was right. Edwards was pointing toward Obama, saying he was right, but from the perspective of the cameras, it looked like he was pointing at Clinton, who was standing in between Edwards and Obama. 

Chris Dodd had substantive answers to the questions, but he is less animated as a speaker than some of the others. He didn't get as much time to answer questions, which was a bit unfair. I liked how he said the first thing he would do as president would be to restore some of our constitutional freedoms, and he would do that on the first day. At some point, I think Dodd is going to have to take a bigger risk in a debate to try to get some media coverage, because right now they don't seem to give him the time of day.

John Edwards helped himself. Like Biden, he came across as a strong and confident speaker. He went out of his way to draw distinctions between himself and the others, and Clinton in particular. He answered the questions well, and on a few occasions got the discussion back on track after it had meandered away from the original question. I liked the line about how the job of the president is to lead, not to legislate. I liked how he pointed out that Clinton and Obama didn't announce in advance whether they would vote for or against the recent Iraq war supplemental funding bill. 

Mike Gravel stuck to form as the angry old man, calling out everyone serving in Congress, and saying Americans need to “grow up” and get used to paying more for gasoline. Although he is not running a real campaign outside of these debates, I am glad he is up there showing everyone what a real liberal looks like (hint to wingnuts: Hillary Clinton is not a real liberal).

Dennis Kucinich has a coherent message and is playing a similar role to Gravel in this campaign. He is going to get a negligible number of votes, even fewer than in 2004, but he is up there showing what the left of the Democratic Party  looks like. His best moment was when he advocated for a single-payer health care system rather than a for-profit system. Unfortunately, there is no chance in hell that single payer could ever pass the Congress.

Barack Obama seemed subdued. He comes across as calm and confident, and he answered the questions well, but I am not sure that he made up any ground on Clinton. It's going to be a little tough for him, because he is running as a different kind of politician who can unite us, and that image would take a beating if he started attacking his rivals. But at some point he may need to come across a little more forcefully (a la Biden) if he wants to dent Hillary's inevitability campaign in New Hampshire. My favorite moment was when he rejected the premise of the question about English as an official language. It played to the image he is trying to cultivate as a uniter, but more important, it was a step toward holding journalists accountable for the framing of their questions.

Bill Richardson's performance was an improvement on the first debate, but he still seemed a little uncomfortable cramming his answers into 60 seconds or less. I liked that he mentioned solar and other forms of renewable energy, not just ethanol. I don't think he made the sale with many people tonight, but I don't think he said anything to inspire undecideds to cross him off their list either. I don't think he's convincing when he says you can get universal health care without any tax increases. A little more straight talk is in order here.

About the Author(s)

desmoinesdem

  • Hard to say who won.

    It appeared to me that there will be no significant change in the poll rankings. I would not be surprised to see a wider gap between the top three and the rest.

    The real test will be to how the money flows because if you wait to send money to your favorite they may be out of the hunt. My guess is that we will be down to four candidates by July 4th.

    I would be surprised to discover that several of the candidates have supporters.

    • still haven't watched yet

      But I don't think anyone will drop out for a while. It is possible to compete in Iowa and NH without a huge pile of money. Bill Richardson only raised what, $6 million in the first quarter? And he's been on the air in both states.

      I see no reason for Richardson, Dodd, or Biden to drop out. They won't be able to afford as many field offices and field organizers as the others, but they can still compete in Iowa and NH.

      Gravel and Kucinich don't need any serious money at all. They are just in the race to be on the stage during the debates.  

      • Boy I am really depressed that you

        thought that Biden helped himself in the debate. You should read what Rod Sullivan has to say about “Angry Joe”.

        • link?

          I am not familiar with Rod Sullivan.

          I noticed that Yepsen also thought Biden looked angry and thought his voice sounded too much like he was shouting. I think it's a struggle for a second-tier candidate to get noticed, and Biden got his message across.

          But then, maybe it's just a matter of personal taste. If angry bothered me, then I wouldn't have been such a fan of Steve Gilliard.

          I don't think presidential candidates want to look too laid back. These are life and death issues they're talking about. 

          • Rod Sullivan is a Johnson County Supervisor

            His comments follow;

            I have always had real trouble with the notion that opposing war equates to
            a lack of support for the troops. Like virtually every American, I love our
            troops, I am proud of them, and I pray for them. I simply wish they were not
            sacrificing their lives and health in this stupid war.
            I could go on, but I can’t say it nearly as well as Mark Twain:
            “The loud little handful will shout for war. The great mass of the nation
            will rub its sleepy eyes and say earnestly and indignantly, “It is unjust
            and dishonorable and there is no need for war.”
            Then the few shout even louder. Before long, anti-war speakers are stoned
            from the platform. Free speech is strangled by hordes of furious men who may
            agree with the speakers but dare not admit it.
            Next, the statesmen invent cheap lies, and each man is glad of these lies
            because they soothe his conscience; thus he convinces himself the war is
            just and he thanks God for a better sleep he enjoys by his self-deception.”
            Twain was writing about US involvement in Cuba and the Philippines. History
            has shown these invasions to be barbaric and completely contrived. History
            books conveniently ignore this fact. Point it out, and you are denounced as
            part of the “Blame America” crowd.
            War apologists say that to leave is to surrender. These black-and-white
            thinkers see only winning and losing. How do they define winning? I have no
            doubt that our military could kill every man in Iraq. They have the ability
            and technology. Would that be a victory? Must we burn the village to save
            it?
            I heard Delaware Senator and Presidential candidate Joe Biden speak a week
            ago. Biden was full of outrage as he spoke about the war, his voice rising
            to nearly a yell. Well, I too am outraged. My outrage lies with Joe Biden.
            Remember Twain’s line about “statesmen who soothe their consciences?” He
            sure seems to know all the answers for a man who voted to START this awful
            war. Rather than blathering, he ought to be humbly apologizing to all the
            people of the world.
            If we truly studied history, Twain’s words would have been heeded several
            times since. But we don’t, and we didn’t. And so it goes.

            • well, I'd never caucus for Biden

              I'm still mad that he screwed up the Clarence Thomas hearings!

              And that bankruptcy bill also made me angry.

              Sounds like Rod Sullivan also would never consider caucusing for Biden either. 

              But trying to get inside the head of someone who has not ruled out Biden, I think the debates have helped him. 

              I don't know any firm Biden supporters and only one Biden leaner–maybe I'll give her a call and see what she thought about the debates.

  • I can't say too much

    as I actually forgot the whole debate.  Only realized it when  I got online last night.  So I had to settle with some recap articles, blogs and a little bit of TV news coverage.

     

    As an Obama guy, I have to say his line about Edwards being 4.5 years late in leading on the Iraq war stuff resonated extremely well with me.  It also seemed to get decent coverage on the little news coverage I saw.

     

    I also got an email from the Biden campaign yesterday, blasting the leading candidates for being too chicken to even appear on Fox and taking their marching orders from MoveOn.  I agree 100% with Biden on that.  I was very disappointed my uniter guy got on the stupid pandering wagon on that topic.

    • can't agree with you there

      A debate on Fox would be full of "when did you stop beating your wife" questions, followed by a bunch of analysis by right-wing hacks who want to tear down our candidates.

      Fox is not a legitimate news outlet. News gathering is a cover for their agenda of promoting the Republican Party. 

      Like they say, when Republicans agree to a debate hosted by Air America, then Democrats can talk about debating on Fox. 

  • Blitzer was unfair in allocating time

    I had the impression that the top-tier candidates got more time to speak, but I wasn't keeping track. Turns out the disparity was quite pronounced–see this post by Chris Bowers:

    http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/6/4/105159/4024 

    Obama got twice as much time to speak as Biden and Dodd, significantly more than Edwards and Richardson, and a little more than Clinton.

    I can see not being 100 percent equal on timekeeping, but that kind of bias is ridiculous. No wonder Richardson seemed frustrated at times.

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