Obama-McCain debate open thread

I’ve been hoping for weeks that Barack Obama would find some way to get under John McCain’s skin during the first presidential debate. In less than an hour we’ll see what he’s got.

I have to believe Obama walks onto the stage with a huge psychological advantage. McCain’s ridiculous stunts this week failed to achieve any favorable outcomes:

1. He failed to demonstrate any ability to handle a crisis. Instead, he looked like an uninformed hothead, saying he would fire the head of the Securities Exchange Commission, when the president has no such authority. Later in the week, he admitted that he had not read Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson’s bailout plan, even though it’s only three pages long.

2. He failed to deliver a deal on the bailout. On the contrary, it looks like McCain’s presence in Washington was detrimental to the negotiations.

3. He backed down from his promise not to attend the first presidential debate unless a bailout deal had been reached. One thing I’ve learned from parenting is never make a threat if you are not willing to follow through.

4. He failed to delay the vice-presidential debate by getting the first presidential debate rescheduled for October 2.

5. Tracking polls and key state polls are not moving in McCain direction. Instead, Obama now has a five-point lead in the tracking poll average, his largest of the campaign.

Debating is not Obama’s strong suit, but McCain has to be feeling more pressure tonight after his disastrous week.

I’ll watch the repeat later tonight. Meanwhile, this is an open thread for any comments related to the debate, the bailout, or the state of the presidential campaign now.

UPDATE: I caught part of the first half. McCain landed a punch regarding Bush’s terrible energy bill. Ouch. Of course Obama can’t say the truth, which is that he (and other good Democrats such as Tom Harkin) voted for a bad energy bill because it had subsidies for corn-based ethanol and coal.

However, then McCain made a big deal out of being for constructing a bunch of new nuclear power plants. Are Americans for more nuclear power? I’m not sure.

SECOND UPDATE: Listening to most of the second half on the radio, I feel Obama has done very well. However, I regret that McCain hasn’t made any big gaffes or unpresidential comments, from my perspective. I think he is wrong about a lot of things, but I doubt that a typical uninformed voter would see through his rhetoric.

I don’t like the way McCain keeps saying Obama is naive, doesn’t get it, etc. That seems like a talking point the right-wing noise machine could hammer mercilessly for days. It’s of course false, but when has that stopped them before?

On the plus side, over at Daily Kos georgia10 posted this:

If you’re watching the debate on CNN, they have a “dial” reaction chart on the bottom of the screen.  If the audience likes what the candidate is saying, they dial up and the lines go up. If they don’t, they dial down and the numbers tank.

Generally speaking, independents (and obviously Democrats) are registering far more positives for Obama than McCain.  Indeed, at certain points, the numbers among indys have taken a nosedive when McCain sets forth Bush’s his policy proposals.

I also thought Obama did a great job of repeatedly pointing out how the Bush administration dropped the ball on getting Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan because we’ve been focused on Iraq.

THIRD UPDATE: I missed Obama’s closing statement but caught part of McCain’s. Again, I am concerned that he was able to keep on talking about his record of bipartisanship and/or opposing his own party when necessary. I feel that makes it hard for Obama to characterize McCain as George Bush’s third term.

I don’t think Obama hurt himself tonight at all, but I am afraid McCain may have helped himself.

On the other hand, since Obama is leading, perhaps it’s good enough for him to have turned in a solid performance with no big mistakes.

Let’s hope the vice-presidential debate shines a spotlight on McCain’s habit of making rash decisions without thinking things through.

FOURTH UPDATE: CBS snap poll of uncommitted voters finds 40 percent think Obama won, 38 percent think it was a tie, and 22 percent think McCain won.

Obama won the CNN snap poll as well. I was particularly struck by the some of the subgroups: huge gender gap, with McCain doing slightly better among men but Obama crushing McCain by nearly 30 18 points among women. Amazingly, CNN respondents over 50 thought Obama won by a 48-40 margin. That’s McCain’s strongest age group.

FIFTH UPDATE: Daily Kos user Eileen B pointed me toward this clip. When Obama makes fun of McCain for not knowing who the leader of Spain was, McCain says, “Horsesh*t.”

I was listening on the radio and didn’t catch this. Will the media pick it up?

Or was McCain saying, “Of course?”

About the Author(s)

desmoinesdem

  • McCain

    Is getting his butt kicked. Its not even close

    • I am listening on the radio

      and I am sorry to say I hear things differently.

      I think Obama is doing quite well, but McCain has a lot of simplistic statements on Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan that probably sound good to a relatively uninformed voter.

      At best I think the media are going to call this a draw, which should help McCain stop the bleeding.

      I don’t think anyone would consider this a big victory for McCain, but he hasn’t tripped all over himself like I was hoping he would.

      • I have to disagree

        The sides are drawn.

        This debate is not get the high ground, not to debate on creditials, etc.

        The nation has been introduced, re-introduced, and now completely know these candidates front and back, due to the 2 year campaign we have went through.

        McCain made a HUGE mistake when he went on the offensive and deliberately tried to shoot down everything Obama said. Whereas Obama did wonderful by saying “I agree with John McCain, but…”

        The Obama camp is not trying to win converts from the neo-cons. Obama is trying to tell people that “It’s ok to disagree with me on certain things, I will make the best decision when the time comes”. Where as McCain is coming off very abrasive to independant voters who may like a little about McCain and a little about Obama and drawing a clear line and calling everyone on the other side a “liberal”. And that line is going to be very hard for moderate independants to cross.

        This either proves that McCain is inept in his election strategy or still believes that there is a need to unify the base.

        Either way, Obama is still in the drivers seat as far as the polls show, and there will be no significant change after this debate

  • This is "McCain's debate"

    And he just hung on.  Maybe it’s just me, but when he kept saying that Obama “doesn’t understand,” I was hearing “This BOY doesn’t understand.  It was so condescending and hateful that I thought it was marginally racist.

    • McCain's tone

      really was very condescending.  I wonder how that will play with the independents and undecideds.  But I don’t think we need to bring racism into that, though.

  • Undecided voters

    It doesn’t really matter what we think about the debate. None of us is undecided. Nor does it matter much what the political pundits say.

    What matters is what undecided voters think…and I’ve now seen three polls, CNN, ABC and FOX showed that with them Obama won the debate.

    I think Obama would have won if he just tied…but I think that he did at least a little better. McCain needed a game changer, and I don’t think he got that.

    I think this is the best I’ve ever seen Obama do in a debate. All of those one-on-one debates with Hillary really helped him.

    • no question about that

      He was sharper tonight than I ever remember seeing him against Hillary.

      McCain was sharper than I expected, given that he didn’t go through any one-on-one debates in the primaries. But I agree with you, Obama held his own. He looked presidential as well.

      The domestic policy debate will not be McCain’s strong suit.

      • The most substantial debate

        That was one of the most substantial debates I’ve ever seen.  I respect both of these men a great deal and I belive that the debate managed to frame (with suprising accuracy) the philosophy of both candidates.

        It was Senator McCain’s debate to win, and Senator Obama’s to lose.  Neither happened, so score Obama.  He did a very good job.

        In the upcoming Vice Presidential debate, I’m concerned that Senator Biden will do or say something that could be considered sexist, demeaning or bullying.  His mouth is going to have to step carefully through the mine field next week.

  • I *think* he said..

    “…of course I did”.  But, who knows?  Senator McCain seemed furious much of the time.

    Frankly, I feel sorry for the guy.  He’d have made a better president than President G.W. Bush.  

    But, despite his personal convictions, Senator McCain chose to align himself with the party of fear mongering elitists, torturers, spendthrifts, fanatics and zealots.  

    Good man, bad move.  I really do believe that Senator McCain sees himself as the redeemer of the Republican party, and I wish him luck..but the Republican party should not repair itself on our time.  It needs to go find a cave somewhere, lick its wounds and decide who it is and for what it stands while we Democrats run things for a while.

     

    • no doubt

      I gotta say, if you listening carefully at about the :20 mark there, there’s no doubt he was saying “horseshit.” He says it once faintly before saying it more audibly – the fist time is  a half second before Obama mentions that Spain is an ally (before that point, there was nothing to say “of course” to). Seems McCain was noticeably upset about Obama saying “he wasn’t sure” about Spain – an indirect knock at a senior moment.

      Temperament. Its an issue. Last night, it was why Obama won.  

    • I agree

      To tell the truth, I was one of the 101 people that Straw Polled for him in Ames in 07, when he was down and out, and I thought to myself how awesome it would be to have an election where the Republican was really an anti-Republican.

      But McCain had to sell his soul to get the nomination and try to “motivate the base” and that, in the end, will be his undoing.

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